I want to say that almost everyone I know wishes they were a different weight. Right now, I am coasting at 111lbs, and I am pretty content here. I am worried about more weight loss, as I tend to lose my appetite and not eat once the weather gets warm, and starting out at this weight is a little worrisome. I might end up being "George Morris" thin, which is a bit too thin for me. But we shall see. Though I am not worried about my current weight a whole heck of a lot, I am always battling weight issues. With Bacon.
July 2012.
She has always been a gangly thing. I met her as a three year old on the track. She was very fit and well muscled, but there was not fat to be seen. She was a nervous baby filly who was already 16+ hands and still growing and working on the track, so, duh. I took her home her four year old year and snarked at the trainer as he laughed and said "have fun feeding her!" I thought I would show him just exactly how awesome she would bloom under my care.
Sept. 2012
She did not blossom. She looked worse.
I had several people around me spewing things like "don't feed her alfalfa, thoroughbreds should only get grass hay" and I rolled with it. So we brought home some grass hay. And I fed her almost a bale a day (70lb bale). And she disappeared before my eyes. I tried feeding her Purina
Ultium (only 3lbs at a time because $$$) with Cool Calories. Her coat was dull. Her feet would not grow and she had terribly thin soles. I was horrified. How could I let this happen to her? HOW DO I FIX IT?
August 2012. It's just painful. My heart sinks.
We bought our year's worth of hay that fall, and we always get alfalfa for the cow pony kids. I said screw it to the grass hay and Bacon got alfalfa. And things started to change. I couldn't see hip bones anymore, or spine and she kind of looked like a normal horse. She was shiney. And happier. I felt like the most awful person ever. Though I think the grass hay I bought was not the best nutrient wise, I think Bacon's body craves the protein and calcium of alfalfa. Here in Idaho, alfalfa grows very well and is easily accessible. Our bales are usually 85-100lbs and we have been purchasing from the same hay farmer for the last 4 years. That man knows exactly what he is doing.
Jan 2013
But alas, my horse is still not ideal to me. I get to see Aimee's curvy Courage and Lindsey's round Prisoner. And then there is Bacon. People still comment on her weight and it makes me feel really bad. If only they knew how difficult she is to feed. She drops weight easily when stressed, which is easy because she is such a nervous girl. We have done a month long course of Omeprazole. I may need to get over the fact that I will probably always see ribs on her, as her dam was the same way. But, damnit, it sure is frustrating.
April 2014
Her current regime right now is approx. 35lbs of alfalfa a day in slow feed hay nets spread out over three feedings, 3lbs of Nutrena Pro Force Fuel, 1/2 cup of vegetable oil, SmartGain, MagRestore, MSM and Glucosamine. If I had more turnout for her, she would be out most of the day. But the tiny pasture I do have is only 1/3 of an acre for four ponies and so time and grass is very limited. Soe day, we will have real pastures! Her feet grow quite well now and she has nice thick soles (just horrible contracted frogs), her coat is shiney, she has plenty of energy and has muscling over her neck, back and butt, as well as her shoulder and even some fat. But still. THOSE RIBS.
The fattest she has ever looked. December 2015.
I do think she looked better at the beginning of the winter and just the past month, I thought I would try the Nutrena Pro Force Fuel due to good reviews. She had been getting Nutrena Safe Choice Perform and was looking pretty good on that. I have to say, this will be my last bag of the Fuel. I am very disappointed with it. It looks to be almost pure molasses. She is much hotter on this product and with this increase in nervous energy, she has dropped some weight. She is not as shiney. She also does not care for the taste much at all either. I have contacted the Triple Crown Feeds department to see if there is any way I can try their products. Our feed stores usually only carry Nutrena and Purina products. Fortunately, Triple Crown seems to be trying to find a way to help me, and I am very grateful. I am very interested to see how Bacon would respond to a grain that is not actually a grain based diet.
And now. Jan 2016. Sad face.
All of your horses look great. I am very jealous. I wish I had more funds to shove more things into my horse, but she doesn't eat all that she has to begin with. What has worked for your horses? Has anyone tried Triple Crown products and been really happy? Sad? Will someone transplant fat onto my horse's sides?
Bonus video clip of Bacon and Husband. She clearly does not care about the tiny bike.
Amanda posted about it just a couple of weeks ago. Jodi at Racing to Ride also feeds TC complete and her spooky/hot mare Indy does great on it -- weight gain without crazy gain. I've considered switching to a complete like TC, but have to price it out a bit -- I currently feed Murray rolled barley which is cheap in CA. About $17 for 70 lbs. I can easily feed him 2+ lbs a day and only add $20/month to my feed bill, and he's keeping a great weight now. (I also use oil and omega horse shine, which is also fairly cheap and helps keep weight and add shine!)
omg that video!!! haha awesome! my friend's new mare reminds me so strongly of Bacon - all legs and the weight practically melts off her. it's a struggle. right now she's getting 3lbs of fuel 2x daily as well, and had been getting rice bran too but didn't seem to care for the taste. our farm previously used Triple Crown products and all the TBs seemed to do just fine with it, tho we switched to Nutrena bc that's what the BM's horse gets. good luck!
So Simon didn't pack on pounds more easily until he turned 9. It's still a tough battle, but he finally seems to be holding his weight better and isn't as ribby as before.
I was going to say the same thing! So Miles didn't start getting chunky until this year at 7 1/2 or so. Also, I spend a small fortune on supplements. I think the ones that have helped him the MOST are SmartOmega and SmartHoof.
But honestly, Bacon looks happy and healthy to me. Sure, you can see some ribbiness, and I'm right there with you that that's not MY ideal look, but she's obviously not starving either <3 <3 <3
I use Nutrena Senior feed for my hard keepers, and lots of soaked beet pulp. Beet pulp is my BFF. We've tried Triple Crown and it worked well but it messed up my mare's stomach so we had to take her off of it.
I should have mentioned that we used to do a lot of beet pulp as well. It did not make too much of a difference, but she was getting 2lbs before soaking, so I don't know. Weird that your mare didn't agree with the Triple Crown, as it is mostly beet pulp based!
I think that some TBs will just never be rotund:) As the owner of an easy keeper, I realize just how lucky I am. Riley is the leanest this winter than he's ever been, but he still looks pretty good. That said, I see a lot of Tbs come through Emily's program and I've seen what seems to work with some of the hard keepers. She's had success with Ultium in the past, but she usually feeds it alongside 12% pelleted. Recently, in place of the Ultium (because it is expensive) she's added beet pulp. Since you keep yours at home the added prep time isn't much of an issue and the horses have been thriving on it. She also added black sunflower seeds (you can read all about their benefit for horses online). I get Magnesium in bulk and it's $25 for a 50lb bag that has almost lasted a year! Cool calories are great too, but I know that adds up $$$ wise. DAC Bloom oil is something Emily's business partner uses on her Hunter/Jumpers and they are all fat and shiny.
Good luck and don't beat yourself up too much about it.
You are probably right. Some just won't do it. She just wants to look like a lean mean eventing machine ;) I just added black sunflower seeds starting this week (stole the goats' stash) and used to do beet pulp as well. If we can afford it, I may try to add the beet pulp back in, but the budget is pretty strapped. Sigh. I will look into the DAC bloom oil as well. Thanks for all of the info!
I've been through this, Stampede is a major feeding struggle. If you look at the picture at the top of my blog carefully you can clearly see his ribs despite him looking shiny and healthy otherwise. Not only does he have trouble gaining and keeping weight, but he could care less about most grain (I drive an hour round trip to buy him his own separate grain). I really struggled because most people say you shouldn't feed your horse a lot of grain. Finally I did a free trial of FeedXL and plugged all of his information in and it clearly showed I was not getting him enough digestible energy. I board so I only have so much control - he gets an alfalfa pellet snack when he comes in from turnout and I feed him an extra grain meal at night on my dollar. All told he gets 3 scoops of grain a day, or roughly 8 lbs. I hate to think how much I spent on omeprazole and weight gain supplements only to find out my horse just needed more calories. Mind you my horse will never be fat but most of the time I think he looks good now. I hope you can find something that works for Bacon but it might be worth trying FeedXL for a month or so and plugging in different diet options.
It just stinks, doesn't it? I have always thought Stampede looks great though. I have never heard of FeedXL, and I will definitely be looking into that. It sounds like a very helpful program. Bacon doesn't finish all of her hay most days, so I am afraid I can't really add in more digestible forage, but it would be interesting to see if she is missing something else somewhere. Thank you for the input!
I have feed Indy the T/C Low Starch and add in TC Light for the vitamins. I like the Low Starch because it keeps her weight and coat good without making her hot and it isn't high in NSCs, ESCs, etc. I don't have to feed nearly as much as I did with other feeds and I like that it doesn't have molasses. Since Winn's laminitis, I'm more concerned with taking preventative measures with Indy and the TC met more of my requirements than any other feed out there. I also have her on Farrier's Formula and flax seed. She aso gets alfalfa and grass hay. Right now she's looking the best she ever has. Winn can only have the TC Light and can't have alfalfa, but he is maintaining his weight and muscling well with that even though he's definitely not an easy keeper.. He also gets Flax and a smartpak hoof pellet that increases circulation (can't remember the exact name of the top of my head). I'm not sure if any of that helps or not, I'm certainly not an expert and am still learning through trial and error what works best for each horse.
Anyway, it's obvious that you take good care of your horses. A hint of ribs showing isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as she has good muscle development. People these days tend to want their horses too fat, which I can say since I tend to lean towards too much fat too (Ty tries to keep me in check about it). It varies so much from horse to horse, some aren't designed to carry a whole lot of extra weight. Don't worry about the people who say she is too thin. You know your horse and if she is at a good weight for her or not.
Thank you for the info! I knew that you were having some success with it and that is part of why I looked into the feed. The rep is working with me and the Nampa D and B to stock it, and so far it looks like it is going to happen. I was also curious about Fat Cat and will have to compare it to SmartPak's SmartGain. I have tried Cool Calories, SmartGain and Cocoasoya (and I think maybe a bag of Renew Gold way back in the day) and was happiest with SmartGain. So much info and products out there!
You can definitely have some of Rico's blubber, he looks at food and puts on weight. Since I mostly have WBs, I haven't had to deal with hard keepers, so I have no advice. I think she looks great though! Some of them are just more slender than others. I have an event horse in my barn who is pure muscle (ready to go Prelim this year) and she's definitely one where if she lost even a pound, her ribs would be right there.
Maybe some day in magic land I will breed Bacon to a nice warmblood and get an eventing machine that will keep some weight on, damnit. And may they spend most of there days in a lush pasture where she will hopefully not instill the habit of weaving. Again, magic land.
Bobby is very much the same way with those ribs. The only time I've ever seen them fully covered in fat is when I got him back from the woman I gave him away to and he'd basically sat for three months eating and not moving. His sire is known for throwing those massive barrels, and most of his babies get the same trait. Bobby gets worse in the summer because he sweats so, so badly and he just sweats all the weight right off.
He's looking pretty good right now. He's on a shit ton of insanely high quality grass/alfalfa hay, 2 qts. Blue Seal Carb Guard twice a day, he's been on the Mag for about a month, and I just started him on Cocosoya last week in hopes of giving him some extra padding before it gets warm again. I haven't had any luck with either Cool Calories or Fat Cat over the years. Hoping the cocosoya does the trick.
Anyway, that was way longer than intended, but I do one hundred percent feel your rib pain! Some horses just like to flaunt their shit I guess. :P
It doesn't help that she spends a large portion of her day weaving her calories away. Also too bad there isn't a herbal supplement that makes weaving disappear and is approved by the horse show lords. I tried to cocoasoya for the majority of the spring and summer last year, and though it did make Bacon look pretty good and super shiny, I feel like she did better on the SmartGain. But that's just her.
I had an OTTB for a while and we fed her beet pulp mixed with oil and cool calories. I also fed her daily Abler omeprazole and aloe juice. Keeping her from developing ulcers was the biggest thing. And she wasn't living a stressed life, I think she was just vey inclined to ulcers. The cool calories really worked for us though I know others have had issues with it.
Nothing to add advice wise - everyone has posted some great ideas. I feel like sometimes it's just a matter of finding what works for your specific horse (and budget). We are struggling a little with one now who needs to be on soy hulls but hates them and is on a hunger strike :) Best of luck, you've been doing a great job so far!
Apollo is the same way - he's never been fat. He was on straight alfalfa, of course, in Idaho, and I gave him rice bran, beet pulp, and Cool Calories. He was in good shape.
Here, alfalfa is way harder to get and way more expensive - grass hay is the only thing around here unless you make a real effort. So he lost weight. I had him on Tribute Kalm N EZ, plus beet pulp, but it was just not enough. Now he gets a pile of food ... As much grass hay as he cares to eat, 1 flake alfalfa hay pm and 1/2 scoop alfalfa pellets Am, 1 scoop Strategy Healthy Edge am & pm, 1/2 to 1 scoop of beet pulp am & pm, and 2 scoops of Cool Calories am & pm.
When I had Echo (also a TB), getting him to eat was a constant struggle. I had the best success with beet pulp and ground flax from Triple Crown. I tried sunflower seeds but they just didn't seem to do a thing. Also, I've used TC for years and won't use anything else. Echo got Complete and did really well on it. The 27 yo gets all the Senior he can eat, and he looks 12. My air ferns get Lite and ... well, look like air ferns. It's a VERY high-quality feed with good ingredients. Definitely recommend it if you can get your hands on it!
Good to know! The rep is working very hard to get Triple Crown in my area, and that makes me very excited. All of the ponies will get transferred to it, I am sure.
Been there done THAT. With TWO horses. Bacardi was the hardest. Yankee was thin until he turned 10 then BOOM, fatty fat fat, literally he is a pig now. Most people think he is a WB. I think the OTTBs just metabolize faster and some are gangly forever. Bacardi didn't gain until year 2 and that was when I started round bale feeding. The constant hay, plus alfalfa, Ultium (a fuckload of it), Smartgut, cocosoya, And Gleam & Gain 60 (all from smartpak). B has gained even more at his current barn. I think because he has mellowed out. Now his sups have been nixed to only SmartCombo pellets and about 6 flakes of alfalfa/grass along w grain. Truly sometimes its just them & no amount of groceries help :/
I know of your struggles with B. Lanky boy needs him all the kcals. The fact that Bacon weaves does not help with keeping the weight on. We hardly have any round bales out here (mostly half ton square bales) but so much of it was wasted last year and hubs says not again.
Sorry you are struggling with her weight. I think you are doing a good job and it really is okay for her to be on the thin side. I'd love to give you some of Emi's chub!
I am RIGHT THERE with you. Tango gets about as much hay as I can stuff into his little tb belly (whyyy are you so picky and leave so much hay everywhere...??), 1 cup of oil a day (I buy it in those giant 35lb containers to save money there), 1 cup of flax seeds, and a metric crap ton of beet pulp. (1 metric crap ton == 3 quarts before soaking). I feel like I'm finally gaining ground with this, but it was definitely a battle. I read a lot about the oil and it finally came down to reading that they can handle up to two cups a day pretty well, and I can't seem to get calories in fast enough with forages. That and then realizing I could buy the oil in the giant containers, which brought the cost down to ~30 cents a day.
My farrier swore that all I needed was to add yea sacc for additional probiotic power but I honestly didn't see that big a difference with Tango so I gave it up. Silly tbs. We love them so much but like for real just stand very still and gain weight plz.
She has decided that she doesn't need to eat all of the stems now and demands fresh hay all of the time. Where do you find your giant oil containers?!? I would love to snag me one of those. Or a few.
And I would love it if that damn mare would stand still. Even when she is turned out, she would rather play than eat.
I have a TB that does *endurance*, of all sports...if a horse is less than a 4 on the body condition scale, they are not allowed to start. I love love LOVE TC products. I had Lily on their Low Starch + molasses-free beet pulp 3x a day + free choice T&A hay as a youngster, then switched to Senior for almost 2 years when we started competing. While on Senior, she was getting free choice timothy with supplemental alfalfa flakes or cubes. She was on that for almost 2 years but one day decided she didn't really like it anymore, which I was terribly bummed about because she did so well on it weight-wise and energy-wise without getting too hot. I can't feed this horse molasses-based grain or anything with high starch grains like oats in them: she will eat them willingly but will then start to lose weight as she gets more nervous and amped. It turns into a vicious cycle. Hence why in my case I stay away from the TC Complete: it does have oats in it and is far higher in starch content than the TC Senior.
When she decided she didn't want TC Senior, I switched Lily to Tribute Kalm Ultra, which is also high fat, high protein, low starch & low sugar, and beet pulp-based, but in pellet form. She really liked it but only one feed store in our area sold it and it became a hike to purchase after moving barns. I currently have her on Legends CarbCare Performance (Legends grain is fixed formula like TC) and both her and I have been very happy with it.
This mare is especially challenging to manage weight-wise because she is a bitch to get fat supplements into: I used to feed her a cup of rice bran oil a day split into her 3 meals and then one day she decided she didn't like it. She won't eat any kind of oil in her grain nowadays and she refuses rice bran in any shape or form (pellets, powder, you name it). She now also hates beet pulp, so that is a no-go in terms of supplementing for weight gain. My best results weight-wise ultimately weren't with supplementing fat: it was with supplementing protein. I added 2 lbs/day of TC 30% to her grain and she positively bloomed. Her weight was spectacular, she was muscling up easily and maintaining, and she had energy for days. She just can't have it if she isn't under heavy work because it does make her hyper.
Supplement-wise she currently gets 5,000 mg of magnesium a day (our soils are deficient on the East Coast) and SmartMare Harmony. During competition season I have her on SmartGut. I used to have her on U-Gard pellets but I like the SmartGut better: she prefers the taste and I've noticed better results. Before riding, I always feed her a flake of grass hay or alfalfa (if I have some bales of alf handy): riding on an empty stomach can predispose a horse to ulcers as all that gastric acid sloshes around. Hay, especially alfalfa due to its calcium content, is the best buffer for this. It's an endurance thing that I've applied to our daily riding and have liked what I've seen. I do notice that she is more prone to losing weight and getting pickier about food if I don't give her her hay before riding. Like Bacon, she has received omeprazole treatments (28 days' worth) when she has gotten extra picky about food.
I hope this helps! :) I really do love the TC products. Gracie the easy keeper lives on TC Lite, which is a very low starch ration balancer, and I supplement her with TC Omega Max, which is basically stabilized ground flax.
I forgot: both mares currently get free choice grass hay in the winter, and 24/7 pasture access in the summer. They are both turned out 24/7 year round. You would think that even with this type of lifestyle it would be easier to keep weight on Lily...-_- So I really do hear ya!
First off I think you need to give yourself a break. Bacon now has a round butt, a nice neck, good muscling, and even some belly, so what if there is a little rib, it might just be how she is built (like if I got really skinny I would still have a big butt, gotta love conformation). I'm loving all these comments though, so many great tidbits of information. You might try adding aloe vera juice (big jugs at walmart for a decent price), not going to add calories, but maybe it will help her insides hang onto those groceries.
I hear you about bottomless pit TB metabolisms! I agree, some of them *need* the extra protein in alfalfa (as long as it doesn't make them too high!) We've had good luck with rice bran and Elk Grove Milling Stable Mix for packing on the pounds without being rocket fuel :)
I struggled for 5 years with Ries. I used Triple Crown and really wasn't impressed. Renew Gold is the ONLY thing that has worked. Or maybe just him getting older has helped? Its weird because he isn't even a hot horse. You met Ries after he blossomed but know I was there once
Knight (OTTB) also eats only alfalfa. That's all (since his hospital stay). He initially was skinny, skinny (both when I bought him and then after being in the hospital a week in December). He's starting to look really nice again. His hips kinda stick out. Before the vet recommended giving straight hay, I was feeding Cavalor Pianissimo. I liked it. Also, on another note, I met a woman last spring who started her own feed brand. You might want to check it out. . . it's called Crypto Aero. She has some pretty good testimonials.
I've had really good luck with Tribute. Not sure if you can get it where you're at, but it seems to run a little cheaper than Triple Crown. Pearl gets 3lbs 2x a day of their senior and it's the only time I haven't had to add fat supplements (well, she gets Vit E and tri amino for muscle development, but she doesn't need extra calories). Winter barn feeds Safe Choice which I am meh about but it's only for a couple months and then I'll come home and switch her back to the Tribute.
I thiiiiiiiink Amanda at $900 FBP has had great luck with Triple Crown....I think that's what she has Henry on, but don't quote me on it.
ReplyDeleteKeeping my fingers crossed for you and the Baconator!
Thank you!
DeleteAmanda posted about it just a couple of weeks ago. Jodi at Racing to Ride also feeds TC complete and her spooky/hot mare Indy does great on it -- weight gain without crazy gain. I've considered switching to a complete like TC, but have to price it out a bit -- I currently feed Murray rolled barley which is cheap in CA. About $17 for 70 lbs. I can easily feed him 2+ lbs a day and only add $20/month to my feed bill, and he's keeping a great weight now. (I also use oil and omega horse shine, which is also fairly cheap and helps keep weight and add shine!)
DeleteI would be happy to send some ass fat. I have lots. :D
ReplyDeleteShe's a challenging one to feed, that's for sure. You're doing a great job!
Another thank you. I'll take some of Papa's fat. He will grow some more.
Deleteomg that video!!! haha awesome! my friend's new mare reminds me so strongly of Bacon - all legs and the weight practically melts off her. it's a struggle. right now she's getting 3lbs of fuel 2x daily as well, and had been getting rice bran too but didn't seem to care for the taste. our farm previously used Triple Crown products and all the TBs seemed to do just fine with it, tho we switched to Nutrena bc that's what the BM's horse gets. good luck!
ReplyDeleteUgh, tell your friend I am sorry but hopefully the mare will be so awesome in all other aspects that it will make up for the weight battle.
DeleteSo Simon didn't pack on pounds more easily until he turned 9. It's still a tough battle, but he finally seems to be holding his weight better and isn't as ribby as before.
ReplyDeleteI am hoping as she matures that will happen as well. But based on what her mom looks like, it's not looking too good.
DeleteI was going to say the same thing! So Miles didn't start getting chunky until this year at 7 1/2 or so. Also, I spend a small fortune on supplements. I think the ones that have helped him the MOST are SmartOmega and SmartHoof.
DeleteBut honestly, Bacon looks happy and healthy to me. Sure, you can see some ribbiness, and I'm right there with you that that's not MY ideal look, but she's obviously not starving either <3 <3 <3
I use Nutrena Senior feed for my hard keepers, and lots of soaked beet pulp. Beet pulp is my BFF. We've tried Triple Crown and it worked well but it messed up my mare's stomach so we had to take her off of it.
ReplyDeleteI should have mentioned that we used to do a lot of beet pulp as well. It did not make too much of a difference, but she was getting 2lbs before soaking, so I don't know. Weird that your mare didn't agree with the Triple Crown, as it is mostly beet pulp based!
DeleteI think that some TBs will just never be rotund:) As the owner of an easy keeper, I realize just how lucky I am. Riley is the leanest this winter than he's ever been, but he still looks pretty good. That said, I see a lot of Tbs come through Emily's program and I've seen what seems to work with some of the hard keepers. She's had success with Ultium in the past, but she usually feeds it alongside 12% pelleted. Recently, in place of the Ultium (because it is expensive) she's added beet pulp. Since you keep yours at home the added prep time isn't much of an issue and the horses have been thriving on it. She also added black sunflower seeds (you can read all about their benefit for horses online). I get Magnesium in bulk and it's $25 for a 50lb bag that has almost lasted a year! Cool calories are great too, but I know that adds up $$$ wise. DAC Bloom oil is something Emily's business partner uses on her Hunter/Jumpers and they are all fat and shiny.
ReplyDeleteGood luck and don't beat yourself up too much about it.
You are probably right. Some just won't do it. She just wants to look like a lean mean eventing machine ;) I just added black sunflower seeds starting this week (stole the goats' stash) and used to do beet pulp as well. If we can afford it, I may try to add the beet pulp back in, but the budget is pretty strapped. Sigh. I will look into the DAC bloom oil as well. Thanks for all of the info!
DeleteI've been through this, Stampede is a major feeding struggle. If you look at the picture at the top of my blog carefully you can clearly see his ribs despite him looking shiny and healthy otherwise. Not only does he have trouble gaining and keeping weight, but he could care less about most grain (I drive an hour round trip to buy him his own separate grain). I really struggled because most people say you shouldn't feed your horse a lot of grain. Finally I did a free trial of FeedXL and plugged all of his information in and it clearly showed I was not getting him enough digestible energy. I board so I only have so much control - he gets an alfalfa pellet snack when he comes in from turnout and I feed him an extra grain meal at night on my dollar. All told he gets 3 scoops of grain a day, or roughly 8 lbs. I hate to think how much I spent on omeprazole and weight gain supplements only to find out my horse just needed more calories. Mind you my horse will never be fat but most of the time I think he looks good now.
ReplyDeleteI hope you can find something that works for Bacon but it might be worth trying FeedXL for a month or so and plugging in different diet options.
It just stinks, doesn't it? I have always thought Stampede looks great though. I have never heard of FeedXL, and I will definitely be looking into that. It sounds like a very helpful program. Bacon doesn't finish all of her hay most days, so I am afraid I can't really add in more digestible forage, but it would be interesting to see if she is missing something else somewhere. Thank you for the input!
DeleteI have feed Indy the T/C Low Starch and add in TC Light for the vitamins. I like the Low Starch because it keeps her weight and coat good without making her hot and it isn't high in NSCs, ESCs, etc. I don't have to feed nearly as much as I did with other feeds and I like that it doesn't have molasses. Since Winn's laminitis, I'm more concerned with taking preventative measures with Indy and the TC met more of my requirements than any other feed out there. I also have her on Farrier's Formula and flax seed. She aso gets alfalfa and grass hay. Right now she's looking the best she ever has. Winn can only have the TC Light and can't have alfalfa, but he is maintaining his weight and muscling well with that even though he's definitely not an easy keeper.. He also gets Flax and a smartpak hoof pellet that increases circulation (can't remember the exact name of the top of my head). I'm not sure if any of that helps or not, I'm certainly not an expert and am still learning through trial and error what works best for each horse.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it's obvious that you take good care of your horses. A hint of ribs showing isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as she has good muscle development. People these days tend to want their horses too fat, which I can say since I tend to lean towards too much fat too (Ty tries to keep me in check about it). It varies so much from horse to horse, some aren't designed to carry a whole lot of extra weight. Don't worry about the people who say she is too thin. You know your horse and if she is at a good weight for her or not.
*I feed Indy, not I have feed Indy. Ugh! Also, I've had good luck with Fat Cat, even the picky eaters seem to like it added to their feed.
DeleteOh I second Fat Cat! I was trying to remember the other supplement we've used!
DeleteThank you for the info! I knew that you were having some success with it and that is part of why I looked into the feed. The rep is working with me and the Nampa D and B to stock it, and so far it looks like it is going to happen. I was also curious about Fat Cat and will have to compare it to SmartPak's SmartGain. I have tried Cool Calories, SmartGain and Cocoasoya (and I think maybe a bag of Renew Gold way back in the day) and was happiest with SmartGain. So much info and products out there!
DeleteOne thing about TC is that they have good customer service. I hope that it all works out. Good luck!
DeleteYou can definitely have some of Rico's blubber, he looks at food and puts on weight. Since I mostly have WBs, I haven't had to deal with hard keepers, so I have no advice. I think she looks great though! Some of them are just more slender than others. I have an event horse in my barn who is pure muscle (ready to go Prelim this year) and she's definitely one where if she lost even a pound, her ribs would be right there.
ReplyDeleteMaybe some day in magic land I will breed Bacon to a nice warmblood and get an eventing machine that will keep some weight on, damnit. And may they spend most of there days in a lush pasture where she will hopefully not instill the habit of weaving. Again, magic land.
DeleteBobby is very much the same way with those ribs. The only time I've ever seen them fully covered in fat is when I got him back from the woman I gave him away to and he'd basically sat for three months eating and not moving. His sire is known for throwing those massive barrels, and most of his babies get the same trait. Bobby gets worse in the summer because he sweats so, so badly and he just sweats all the weight right off.
ReplyDeleteHe's looking pretty good right now. He's on a shit ton of insanely high quality grass/alfalfa hay, 2 qts. Blue Seal Carb Guard twice a day, he's been on the Mag for about a month, and I just started him on Cocosoya last week in hopes of giving him some extra padding before it gets warm again. I haven't had any luck with either Cool Calories or Fat Cat over the years. Hoping the cocosoya does the trick.
Anyway, that was way longer than intended, but I do one hundred percent feel your rib pain! Some horses just like to flaunt their shit I guess. :P
It doesn't help that she spends a large portion of her day weaving her calories away. Also too bad there isn't a herbal supplement that makes weaving disappear and is approved by the horse show lords. I tried to cocoasoya for the majority of the spring and summer last year, and though it did make Bacon look pretty good and super shiny, I feel like she did better on the SmartGain. But that's just her.
DeleteI had an OTTB for a while and we fed her beet pulp mixed with oil and cool calories. I also fed her daily Abler omeprazole and aloe juice. Keeping her from developing ulcers was the biggest thing. And she wasn't living a stressed life, I think she was just vey inclined to ulcers. The cool calories really worked for us though I know others have had issues with it.
ReplyDeleteI wish Cool Calories worked. I really loved the smell!
DeleteNothing to add advice wise - everyone has posted some great ideas. I feel like sometimes it's just a matter of finding what works for your specific horse (and budget). We are struggling a little with one now who needs to be on soy hulls but hates them and is on a hunger strike :)
ReplyDeleteBest of luck, you've been doing a great job so far!
Those hunger strikes, they will get you every time!
DeleteApollo is the same way - he's never been fat. He was on straight alfalfa, of course, in Idaho, and I gave him rice bran, beet pulp, and Cool Calories. He was in good shape.
ReplyDeleteHere, alfalfa is way harder to get and way more expensive - grass hay is the only thing around here unless you make a real effort. So he lost weight. I had him on Tribute Kalm N EZ, plus beet pulp, but it was just not enough. Now he gets a pile of food ... As much grass hay as he cares to eat, 1 flake alfalfa hay pm and 1/2 scoop alfalfa pellets Am, 1 scoop Strategy Healthy Edge am & pm, 1/2 to 1 scoop of beet pulp am & pm, and 2 scoops of Cool Calories am & pm.
I call it the Feed The Thoroughbred game.
Ugh, I think they call it the "torture our owner" feed program. I love Idaho and its alfalfa!
DeleteWhen I had Echo (also a TB), getting him to eat was a constant struggle. I had the best success with beet pulp and ground flax from Triple Crown. I tried sunflower seeds but they just didn't seem to do a thing. Also, I've used TC for years and won't use anything else. Echo got Complete and did really well on it. The 27 yo gets all the Senior he can eat, and he looks 12. My air ferns get Lite and ... well, look like air ferns. It's a VERY high-quality feed with good ingredients. Definitely recommend it if you can get your hands on it!
ReplyDeleteGood to know! The rep is working very hard to get Triple Crown in my area, and that makes me very excited. All of the ponies will get transferred to it, I am sure.
DeleteBeen there done THAT. With TWO horses. Bacardi was the hardest. Yankee was thin until he turned 10 then BOOM, fatty fat fat, literally he is a pig now. Most people think he is a WB. I think the OTTBs just metabolize faster and some are gangly forever. Bacardi didn't gain until year 2 and that was when I started round bale feeding. The constant hay, plus alfalfa, Ultium (a fuckload of it), Smartgut, cocosoya, And Gleam & Gain 60 (all from smartpak). B has gained even more at his current barn. I think because he has mellowed out. Now his sups have been nixed to only SmartCombo pellets and about 6 flakes of alfalfa/grass along w grain. Truly sometimes its just them & no amount of groceries help :/
ReplyDeleteI know of your struggles with B. Lanky boy needs him all the kcals. The fact that Bacon weaves does not help with keeping the weight on. We hardly have any round bales out here (mostly half ton square bales) but so much of it was wasted last year and hubs says not again.
DeleteHave you tried using round bale feeders? they really helped with waste
DeleteSorry you are struggling with her weight. I think you are doing a good job and it really is okay for her to be on the thin side. I'd love to give you some of Emi's chub!
ReplyDeleteThank you! I would love some of the Emi chub :)
DeleteI am RIGHT THERE with you. Tango gets about as much hay as I can stuff into his little tb belly (whyyy are you so picky and leave so much hay everywhere...??), 1 cup of oil a day (I buy it in those giant 35lb containers to save money there), 1 cup of flax seeds, and a metric crap ton of beet pulp. (1 metric crap ton == 3 quarts before soaking). I feel like I'm finally gaining ground with this, but it was definitely a battle. I read a lot about the oil and it finally came down to reading that they can handle up to two cups a day pretty well, and I can't seem to get calories in fast enough with forages. That and then realizing I could buy the oil in the giant containers, which brought the cost down to ~30 cents a day.
ReplyDeleteMy farrier swore that all I needed was to add yea sacc for additional probiotic power but I honestly didn't see that big a difference with Tango so I gave it up. Silly tbs. We love them so much but like for real just stand very still and gain weight plz.
She has decided that she doesn't need to eat all of the stems now and demands fresh hay all of the time. Where do you find your giant oil containers?!? I would love to snag me one of those. Or a few.
DeleteAnd I would love it if that damn mare would stand still. Even when she is turned out, she would rather play than eat.
I have a TB that does *endurance*, of all sports...if a horse is less than a 4 on the body condition scale, they are not allowed to start. I love love LOVE TC products. I had Lily on their Low Starch + molasses-free beet pulp 3x a day + free choice T&A hay as a youngster, then switched to Senior for almost 2 years when we started competing. While on Senior, she was getting free choice timothy with supplemental alfalfa flakes or cubes. She was on that for almost 2 years but one day decided she didn't really like it anymore, which I was terribly bummed about because she did so well on it weight-wise and energy-wise without getting too hot. I can't feed this horse molasses-based grain or anything with high starch grains like oats in them: she will eat them willingly but will then start to lose weight as she gets more nervous and amped. It turns into a vicious cycle. Hence why in my case I stay away from the TC Complete: it does have oats in it and is far higher in starch content than the TC Senior.
ReplyDeleteWhen she decided she didn't want TC Senior, I switched Lily to Tribute Kalm Ultra, which is also high fat, high protein, low starch & low sugar, and beet pulp-based, but in pellet form. She really liked it but only one feed store in our area sold it and it became a hike to purchase after moving barns. I currently have her on Legends CarbCare Performance (Legends grain is fixed formula like TC) and both her and I have been very happy with it.
This mare is especially challenging to manage weight-wise because she is a bitch to get fat supplements into: I used to feed her a cup of rice bran oil a day split into her 3 meals and then one day she decided she didn't like it. She won't eat any kind of oil in her grain nowadays and she refuses rice bran in any shape or form (pellets, powder, you name it). She now also hates beet pulp, so that is a no-go in terms of supplementing for weight gain. My best results weight-wise ultimately weren't with supplementing fat: it was with supplementing protein. I added 2 lbs/day of TC 30% to her grain and she positively bloomed. Her weight was spectacular, she was muscling up easily and maintaining, and she had energy for days. She just can't have it if she isn't under heavy work because it does make her hyper.
Supplement-wise she currently gets 5,000 mg of magnesium a day (our soils are deficient on the East Coast) and SmartMare Harmony. During competition season I have her on SmartGut. I used to have her on U-Gard pellets but I like the SmartGut better: she prefers the taste and I've noticed better results. Before riding, I always feed her a flake of grass hay or alfalfa (if I have some bales of alf handy): riding on an empty stomach can predispose a horse to ulcers as all that gastric acid sloshes around. Hay, especially alfalfa due to its calcium content, is the best buffer for this. It's an endurance thing that I've applied to our daily riding and have liked what I've seen. I do notice that she is more prone to losing weight and getting pickier about food if I don't give her her hay before riding. Like Bacon, she has received omeprazole treatments (28 days' worth) when she has gotten extra picky about food.
I hope this helps! :) I really do love the TC products. Gracie the easy keeper lives on TC Lite, which is a very low starch ration balancer, and I supplement her with TC Omega Max, which is basically stabilized ground flax.
I forgot: both mares currently get free choice grass hay in the winter, and 24/7 pasture access in the summer. They are both turned out 24/7 year round. You would think that even with this type of lifestyle it would be easier to keep weight on Lily...-_- So I really do hear ya!
DeleteFirst off I think you need to give yourself a break. Bacon now has a round butt, a nice neck, good muscling, and even some belly, so what if there is a little rib, it might just be how she is built (like if I got really skinny I would still have a big butt, gotta love conformation). I'm loving all these comments though, so many great tidbits of information. You might try adding aloe vera juice (big jugs at walmart for a decent price), not going to add calories, but maybe it will help her insides hang onto those groceries.
ReplyDeleteI hear you about bottomless pit TB metabolisms! I agree, some of them *need* the extra protein in alfalfa (as long as it doesn't make them too high!) We've had good luck with rice bran and Elk Grove Milling Stable Mix for packing on the pounds without being rocket fuel :)
ReplyDeleteI struggled for 5 years with Ries. I used Triple Crown and really wasn't impressed. Renew Gold is the ONLY thing that has worked. Or maybe just him getting older has helped? Its weird because he isn't even a hot horse. You met Ries after he blossomed but know I was there once
ReplyDeleteKnight (OTTB) also eats only alfalfa. That's all (since his hospital stay). He initially was skinny, skinny (both when I bought him and then after being in the hospital a week in December). He's starting to look really nice again. His hips kinda stick out. Before the vet recommended giving straight hay, I was feeding Cavalor Pianissimo. I liked it. Also, on another note, I met a woman last spring who started her own feed brand. You might want to check it out. . . it's called Crypto Aero. She has some pretty good testimonials.
ReplyDeleteI've had really good luck with Tribute. Not sure if you can get it where you're at, but it seems to run a little cheaper than Triple Crown. Pearl gets 3lbs 2x a day of their senior and it's the only time I haven't had to add fat supplements (well, she gets Vit E and tri amino for muscle development, but she doesn't need extra calories). Winter barn feeds Safe Choice which I am meh about but it's only for a couple months and then I'll come home and switch her back to the Tribute.
ReplyDelete